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Ok.  I just have to vent.  I hate the interview question – “Where do you see yourself in five years?” 

In addition to being a lazy question, it is just a ridiculous one.  I’ve never had an answer about my career, and if I did, more than anything it would have limited me.  I am not talking about lawyers or accountants, for whom this may be an appropriate (albeit obvious) question if they are on the partner track.  But for most of us, careers are not developed on an obvious, straight line trajectory. 

What could I have really answered?

When I was 30, I could only easily and honestly have answered that I wanted to meet my life partner in the next 5 years, have a child and make more money.  Any other answer would have been folly. 

I could not have anticipated that within a year I would have met a mentor/supporter that would offer me the chance to work on the new issue of climate change in the wake of the newly installed Clinton Administration.  Climate change was a vast and as yet not well understood multidisciplinary field … bringing together science, technology, economics, and diplomacy.  There are few people that could have given this as an answer prior to 1992 (the year of the Earth Summit in Rio)!

I raise this to give you permission to think differently about this question.  Rather than a lazy HR person’s question, use it to think about your life.  

[Right now, we’re all focused on the sudden and drastic changes to our lives. Please try to remember how you would have answered these questions even a week ago or whether you now have a new perspective.]

Do you want to find a spouse, buy a house, have children, develop a hobby, move, volunteer more, develop a skill?  What aspect of your current job do you like and want to expand?  Can you live with the dreary but often necessary parts of your job?  Are you developing skills that will help you along the path you’re on, regardless of whether you like this aspect of your job?

The Unexpected Job Skill 

I once held a job in a budget and analysis office that required developing annual Congressional budget requests.  Lucky for me, I did this for the US Department of Energy’s (DOE) Wind Technologies office, so I loved the content and the people that I worked with.  I wasn’t enamored with developing budget language or going through the motions of changing text and formats based on the whims of our DOE and Office of Management and Budget (OMB) masters.  However, I came to understand that the budget is THE most important policy document in government, as it’s almost impossible to make an impact without funding. 

Understanding the sausage making of developing budgets – and knowing how to read them, analyze them and research old budgets – came to be very powerful at later points of my career.  In fact, in more recent years, I was able to challenge a superior’s funding decision about a large project I was working on.  Because I knew what Congressional intent had been from reading several year’s worth of federal budget and Congressional passback language, this very worthy project ended up being fully funded. 

What I originally thought of as daunting was not nearly so once I got into it.  This was a big lesson to me.  This job was not in any way a favorite post, but it was key to being strategic and effective down the road.  It also gave me a huge appreciation for the folks that worked in this area, including those involved in executing and processing current year budgets.  Knowing these folks and who to ask for help was invaluable down the line.   

The Evolving Career

It is always hard to know when to jump ship vs just dealing with the mundane or unsatisfying aspects on one’s job.  Rather than freak out when you’re stuck doing an aspect of your job that you don’t like, consider whether it is building necessary skills.  Are there ways to widen your perspective and make it more interesting?  Or are there ways to learn new things or meet new people, once we’re allowed to go back to normal life?

Connecting Once We get to the Post-Coronavirus Age

What about attending brown bag lunches with interesting speakers?  If you’re really feeling stuck, find folks you like to go to lunch or coffee, or take a walk, with.  Start talking to the person on the next machine at the gym.  Expand your horizons.  You never know where these efforts will lead, but at least you’ll make your day that much more pleasant. 

So, if you’re really asked this question in an interview, answer it with what skills you’d like to build, the impact you hope to have or the challenges you hope to conquer.  For my example above, while I could not have anticipated the climate change policy job I would soon have, I could have answered that I wanted to work to stop the “global warming” issue that was starting to percolate.  [Actually, that’s exactly what happened with my first interview at DOE – to be covered in a later blog.]

I also would never have said I wanted to work on budgets.  Yet, being roped into a budget role would ultimately be a big benefit. 

Careers evolve for most of us in ways we could not have predicted.  If you’re antsy, it’s more important to evaluate – every quarter or so – what is working for you and what isn’t.  I recommend this not to continually question how you are doing in your job but to give yourself credit for where you are and the small, less intimidating steps you may need to achieve the next step (or goal).

While we should all think about and be intentional about the skills we need to cultivate, I hope we use this “five-year” question to think about our lives beyond simply our jobs.  Also, please reconsider working in an organization that would have someone asking such a lazy question.

As we all have to hunker down for the next few weeks, please take time to reassess and maybe recalibrate your views about your daily life. Appreciate what you have, take a walk if you can easily leave your home, and most of all — be humane to yourself and others. Be safe and stay healthy!

Recommended article about really unique and revealing interview questions:

“After Giving 1,000 Interviews, I found the 4 Questions that Actually Matter,” by David Walker  https://www.inc.com/david-walker/after-giving-1000-interviews-i-found-the-4-questions-that-actually-matter.html?cid=search

I found these helpful to provide some good perspective for getting through this pandemic:

https://gretchenrubin.com/2020/03/10-tips-for-staying-calm-during-coronavirus/

Maria Shriver’s Sunday paper, March 15 addition

I’ve never understood the disparagement of millennials.  From my experience working with many millennials, I think they are the most capable, powerful and fun generation ever.

What’s Different?

I came up in a very hierarchical working world, where roles, contribution and expectations were determined by age, rank, length of employment and sex. My experience working with many millennials is that they have benefited from a far less regimented world and more robust educational system (another controversial topic).  Most also grew up in the digital revolution, rendering them the first digital natives.  

As I spent most of my career trying to deal with the impending doom of climate change, I am convinced that it is this generation, followed closely by Gen Z, that have the skills to transform our economy through integration of energy/environmental and information technologies. They tend also to be more altruistic and less materialistic- meaning they want to save the world in a way that earlier, more myopic generations couldn’t and wouldn’t.

A huge difference from when I was young is the much higher regard for early career folks, even interns, by their higher-ups. They are in a unique situation – they generally are qualified to produce on day one in areas that their bosses – baby boomers and those born prior to 1980 – often are still stymied by. Millennial Interns and staff that have worked for me were very nimble – able to process a lot of information quickly and in a digestible manner – whether using visual tools or social media.  To a person, they were efficient, effective, productive and a joy to be around from day 1. 

What’s the Same?

Yet many still face the same age-old concerns and fears that they are not good enough or are stymied in their ability to get ahead. They are still human … their careers (and mostly, their salaries) are moving at the Darwinian pace even if their skills are beyond past generations, essentially post-evolutionary.  They may still question themselves and experience imposter syndrome where they question their abilities. Or they still need to navigate organizational structures that are complex and confusing.  Of course, as a generation, they are facing financial pressure and debt not seen in many decades.  

My experience has led me to some counterintuitive lessons that I’d love to pass on:

1. Don’t be too eager to be the boss.  I’ve seen countless examples of twenty-somethings thrust into a management role before they have enough experience and training to manage people and resources well.  The real problem with this, other than the impact it has on their subordinates, is that it’s very hard to return to a staff/worker level to secure the proper skills.  I fear that this early rise could actually stall a career as you are “found out” and your reputation is tarnished irreparably.  Be patient – moving up the ladder on a more conventional timeframe can actually help you be more successful down the line. 
2. Don’t be timid about approaching those at the later stages of their career.  I always thought that those in their late 50s and older would be too busy and uninterested to talk to me.  However, what I’ve found is the opposite.  Those later in their career tend not to be as interested in promotions but rather find satisfaction in giving back to those coming up behind them.  When approaching these folks, please be mindful that they are really busy and need you to be patient when scheduling a meeting.  Also, they expect you to be focused with questions once in it.  Remember also that you, not them, should be the initiator of most mentoring meetings.
3. You hold the most power when accepting a new job.  It is at this time when you can negotiate for more money or benefits – especially in large organizations.  Just be careful about demanding part-time or telework if it’s not already offered.  These most often must be earned once an employer views you as invaluable.
4. Don’t expect yourself to be perfect.  Perfection is not achievable and shouldn’t be the goal (unless you’re a surgeon or air traffic controller!).  While I used to aspire to be a perfectionist, what I’ve found is that perfectionists have difficulty completing assignments.  It’s actually more efficient and personally more satisfying to realize a project or assignment is good enough (emphasis on “good”) and you can move on to the next one, helping the organization to be more successful.  One caveat – please edit your work and make sure there are no grammatical, spelling or math errors!
5. No one is great at everything.  I always thought I had to do everything exactly right.  In looking back at the bosses and colleagues I admire most, none were great at every aspect of their jobs.  This realization helped calm me down when I expected too much of myself. 
6. Be conscious about what works and doesn’t work with your manager, budgeting/finances and other management principles as you go along in your career.  Consider writing it down or imprinting it in your consciousness.  This will help you down the line as you move up and are in positions to apply what you consider to be best practices. 

I welcome your thoughts. 

NB: I love the Her Money podcast, especially this one that focused on negotiating for salary/benefits when accepting a new job:  https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/hermoney-with-jean-chatzky/id1098802558?i=1000459938138